In this episode of Smart Start, we kick things off with a conversation with Jack Johnson, Destinations International’s chief advocacy officer, regarding the news that Visit Florida removed the LGBTQ+ resource page from their website.
Later, editors Eming Piansay and Sara Robertson are joined by trailblazing mother-daughter-duo, Tyra and Jasmine Dyson. Together, they’re the brains behind The Brand Xperience Lounge and Boss Up Girl Co.
Join Smart Start as we dig into gender disparity in the events industry, and what the future holds (spoiler alert: it’s filled with confident authenticity, intentional mentorship and cheering each other on).
Sara Robertson Welcome, everyone to Smart Start Radio. We are so happy you’ve joined us once again for this wonderful episode. We are bringing in Tyra Dyson and Jasmine Dyson, a fantastic mother-daughter duo here in the meetings and events industry. Tyra and Jasmine, thank you so much for joining us today.
Eming Piansay We really have heard so much about you both from our boss, JT. She talks so much about you, and said you’re so excited. You’re so vibrant. You’re so like, you have so many thoughts. And we’re like, “We have to get these girls in a room with us to talk about some issues, because we know you have a lot to say.” So just to start things off, like can we hear a little bit about you guys, your history, where you come from, or what you do and all that jazz?
Tyra Dyson I guess I’ll start. So, as you said, you know who we are. I’m Tyra Dyson. I am a Washington D.C. native, born and actually raised in Washington D.C. Alexandria, Virginia, is my permanent residence right now. I have been in the meetings and events industry for a little over 23 years. But I started my career in the association world. And since then, I’ve worked basically in every genre you can probably think of, from association to corporate to also doing government meetings, as well. So, I’ve been around for a very long time. I’ve worked in, like I said, almost every genre of this side of the industry, including also co-owning two other businesses with my daughter, who’s on here with me today. And, for that, I do pretty much some of the same things with directing all of the events for all of her branding and marketing clients and all of our women empowerment events.
Jasmine Dyson I was grandfathered into the industry, because my mom has been in the industry for over 20 years. But specifically, for me, I work with small to midsize businesses, associations and corporations centered around marketing. My wheel of influence is how to create more engaging experiences, how to get marketing that’s more exciting, that drives registrations and results to get people out to your events and then how to nurture those relationships over time, so that people want to come back year after year. About 10 years ago, I started to study and specialize in marketing, specifically around branding and brand building. And now, I’ve morphed that into digital marketing and all the things that encompass what marketing is today, which looks very different from the marketing that I studied in college. But it’s exciting, nonetheless, because I get to stay on my toes and learn new things and kind of try out new trends constantly. So, innovation and strategy is my spark, and where I really thrive.
SR Awesome. Jasmine, tell us a little bit about what you do.
JD Sure. So I was grandfathered into the industry, because my mom has been in the industry for over 20 years. But specifically for me, I work with small to midsize businesses, associations and corporations centered around marketing. So my kind of wheel of influence is how to create more engaging experiences, how to get a marketing that’s more exciting, that kind of drives registrations and results to get people out to your events, and then how to nurture those relationships over time, so that people want to come back year after year. So over about 10 years ago, I started to study and specialize in marketing, specifically around branding and brand building. And now I’ve kind of morphed that into digital marketing and all the things that kind of encompass what marketing is today, which looks very different from the marketing that I studied in college. But it’s exciting nonetheless. Because I get to keep, you know, on my toes and learn new things and kind of try out new trends constantly. So innovation and strategy is kind of where I kind of, that’s kind of my spark and where I really thrive. And so that’s kind of a little bit about my background and what it is that I do.
SR Wonderful. And the two of you own and operate a business together. Is that correct?
JD Yes. So, The Brand Xperience Lounge is a strategic marketing agency. That’s my baby. That’s the organization that we work with together. I do a lot of the marketing, branding, all of that stuff. And then she comes in and helps us with our event management and execution.
TD So essentially, Jasmine has been a little modest. She said small to midsize businesses. So, basically, she helps people start to build it, so we like to say we help you build it, brand it. Then I come in with a launch party. So, she helps actually build a business from the ground up. Then she helps you gives you all the digital marketing to basically position yourself as a business, and I help you launch that business with an event introducing your business to your marketplace.
SR Gosh, so when I was introducing you two, I paused for a minute, looking for the right word to describe what this mother-daughter duo is. The word wasn’t coming to me, but it just came to me. So, I’m gonna just say, SmartStart Radio is happy to host this trailblazing mother-daughter duo. You guys are awesome.
EP How did this happen? What made you guys decide, like, “Hey, we need to do this together.”?
TD Jazz, Jasmine, of course, she’s my only child. So, we have always been very, very close. I have always had an entrepreneurial heart, so I’ve always done a lot of like they call it “side hustles,” if you will. And, so, when she was in college, even, she had joined a biz, co-owned the business with me. And then at that point, I think was doing one of those MLMs selling jewelry or something like that. And I wanted her to also have her own income while she was in college. And so basically, she of course, like she said, got into the branding and into the marketing. And we were learning a little more and more about businesses. And then we were like, “Well, you know, we should be able to do this kind of like on our own,” because the problem that we found was, as a small business, is that you really needed the branding and the marketing piece. But we weren’t a Fortune 500 company.
To be able to afford the level of marketing and branding that you needed, to be able to get your voice and your face out there in the marketplace. So Jasmine is just excellent. She’s all self-taught, by the way, with macro technology, which is amazing. And so when we started, we were like, you know, we should be, we want to have this, we want other people to be able to have Fortune 500-level marketing without the Fortune 500-level price tag, because you haven’t gotten there, but to get there, you still need that level of marketing. And so that’s kind of how the baby started. And we were like, “We can do this on our own, and show other people what we did.” Because she was so good at graphic design and all of these things. And so we were like, well, we can help other smaller businesses, and people just starting out, especially like we call solopreneurs. If you’re just one individual, and then don’t have any staff, but really trying to get out there, we can kind of help you do that. Because that was always the pain point for us.
We would go to a lot of business conferences, we would go listen to people talk about business, and we would be so excited, and they get to the end and say it’s $20,000 to get it. That’s a hefty price tag. And then all that excitement will just go, “Oh…” We thought that was just, you know, kind of unfortunate, we get it, but we wanted to be able to help people out because that was a pain point for us. So that’s kind of how we started The Brand Xperience Lounge, because when we started about we used to actually be called E2P, which was “empowered to prosper.” That’s kind of what that stands for. And then we rebranded to The Brand Xperience Lounge as we grew in the industry. And then we started our women’s empowerment company, I think back in 2017 and 2018. You know, uplifting women.
SR So when you talk about uplifting women and women in business, one of the things I was thinking about when you’re talking about this, like facing this hefty price tag and like, your hopes are dashed, you know. And with your business, you’re sort of making it more accessible, you know, so accessibility comes to mind. And then, you bring in women’s empowerment. So, I guess I’m kind of thinking about how, not everyone would do that. Not everyone would care, but you guys do.
JD Yeah, I think, for me, starting a business, I’m naturally a creative. So, a lot of this stuff is just exciting to me. So to be honest it kind of just came from a place of like, This is so cool, to see these things come together. One of the things I always say, when people ask me what I do, is like, “I take the ideas out of your head, onto paper and into the marketplace.” Because that’s kind of really the thing that excites me, is like someone coming to me with their big idea. And if you’ve ever worked with people who are like starting something new or excited about something new, like that excitement is infectious, right? So to her point, to be so excited and hopeful and so motivated in these spaces, and they then hit you with something that kind of puts a pin in the balloon, that part kind of sucks. So for me, starting now, a lot of the excitement came from helping people to see the idea all the way through to fruition, and so whether or not they’re still in business now, today, or not, just to go with them and be able to take them through the entire process of launching the idea into the marketplace and seeing this thing is actually possible was always like the cool part for me.
When we started out, first of all, it came from our own experience, like she said, of building a business and trying to figure it out, because naturally anyone who knows us knows we have very, very high tastes and we have a very excellent, you know, way of seeing things and doing things, so you know every business owner out there who’s just starting out is not expective to have Fortune 500-level marketing, but, that’s just who we are as people. So we didn’t want to have to cut corners, we didn’t want to have to go through the janky process of, you know, the horrible business cards and the horrible stuff before we got to the big thing. Like, we wanted to launch out into the marketplace with a brand that was representative of who we were as people. And so that’s how we even kind of landed on branding, because at first, it was just kind of like, all different facets of marketing, like how do we do our own marketing and make it look so good that it, you know, adequately represents us. And then as I started to, like, go back into my toolkit from school, some of the marketing and business classes I had, I’m like, wait, branding is what it is. And that’s what we do. And so, for us, it was about giving people that same level of experience.
I am a nerd! So, once I decided on the thing, I just kind of geeked out on it, and learned everything there was to know about the industry, about how you do this stuff. You know, I built my own websites, I learned how to code, I learned how to do all the things. And so I was able to study enough and learn enough to be able to make sure that our brand and our presentation was up to par and up to the level that we wanted. And so then I decided, okay, I can do this for us, I’m pretty sure that I can help some other folks out too. And along the way of my journey of learning, I had some, you know, my entrepreneurship teacher from high school was like, “Well, hey, can you do something for me?” You know, some other folks, who are, my boss had a friend who was starting two businesses there, “Hey, can you help her out?” So it just, kind of along the way I picked up people who allowed me to kind of practice of sorts, to kind of refine this thing into what it has become. But that was kind of the foundation of it, is that, you know, I wanted to launch something out into the world that was representative of who I was. And I couldn’t afford to pay someone to do that for me. So, I had to figure it out how to do it myself. And then I was able to help other people do the same.
EP That’s incredible. Wow, you guys are full on just like, all editions go. That’s really amazing. Like, that was inspiring to hear that, honestly.
JD It really is like, if I can’t pay somebody to do it, I’ll just figure out how to do it myself. And I did.
TD Yeah, she’s good at that. I always tell everybody, you should always have a millennial on your side. It totally helped me for sure.
EP One big reason why we want to talk to you guys was, one question we’ve been talking about, at least in our office, is that, you know, our industry is has a lot of females in it, like it’s very female dominated. But the issue being is that a lot, a lot of the time, we’re not up on the top, like C-suite level. And so, we’re just kind of like wondering, why do you think that is? And what can be done to like, you know, shake that up? How can we be more empowered to take leadership roles in an industry that, even though there’s so many, it’s not really like always an option?
SR Yes, like in this industry far and wide, there’s so many women, it’s woman-dominated, but in the C-suite, this industry’s C-suite, is male-dominated.
TD True. And I think that we all kind of know the answer to that: this is something that’s been an old adage for centuries, unfortunately, and I think because the world in and of itself is male dominated. And I think that, first of all, first and foremost, the main reason why, and honestly, why I think we can say our industry is dominated by women, to be perfectly honest, in the grand scheme of things—If you think association executives, hospitality executives, all of those people in sales, AV—those are all male-dominated fields in our industry. So, I honestly don’t really think that it is dominated by women. It’s dominated by women as meeting planners, from a meeting kind of perspective, but when you talk about hospitality sales and hotel sales, AV sales, that tech side, you know, the AV providers, all those are male-dominated, right? And so, and then when you get to the association executives, a lot of times those CEOs of these associations are male, even the ones, even the very few African American CEOs of Associations that I do know are male.
So I think that, you know, it’s the old adage again, I think, because the world in and of itself if male dominated. And I think, unfortunately, it still is a bad stigma. And then, like, women, like we can’t just take, we just can’t hack it right? Or, we just don’t know all that we need to know to be able to be successful in this particular field. And I think men being men, unfortunately, a lot of men don’t want to work for women. So how does that happen right at the C-suite level, because those men will then have to, then answer to a woman. So I think that event when we’re looking at, you know, in our political purview, I think that has been the same thing, whether it’s with Kamala Harris or even Hillary Clinton, I think it’s that still the world is still not ready for a woman CEO, if you will, if that makes sense. And I think that is par for the course when we are trying to reach and climb. And absolutely hats off to the women who have made so many strides—there are a lot of women in C-suite positions—just not enough, right? Or a lot of the women who are qualified to be there, aren’t there. And I think the main reason still is, is because it’s very hard for men to answer to women. And I think they contend to keep using the excuse is that, that somehow we’re just, we’re just too emotional or just too fragile. So when the going gets tough, we won’t be able to hack it. And so they, they hesitate. We could be at number two, but it’s very difficult to make us a number one, and that’s unfortunate. Jasmine, if you have any thoughts. But that’s just what I think.
JD Two things. I think, first of all, when we have conversations around diversity, equity and inclusion, I think that, a lot of times, people operate in groups of silo, which dilutes the entire conversation. And so, if we aren’t intentional about diversity conversations, when it comes to Black folks, or when it comes to individuals with disabilities or when it comes to groups, you know, other social groups, then if we allow those groups to be ousted in their, you know, particular silos, then the larger conversation of diversity, equity and inclusion gets lost and diluted. And I think that is one of the issues that not a lot of people are addressing, because if we don’t get, if we don’t, aren’t intentional about diversity, equity and inclusion, when it comes to Black folks, then that also trickles down to our reasoning for not allowing women at large to be in the positions that they deserve to be in. And we’re not as intentional about that, as well. And so I think in all facets of diversity, we’re lacking.
And because every group is fighting their own battle, it doesn’t allow for us all to take down the big monster, which is men. So I mean, you know, women are qualified. When women do get into positions of power, a lot of times—it happens with other social groups as well—they’re fearful of being able to keep that role or being able to hack it, like she said, and so they don’t allow themselves to be a vessel, a door, a gateway, a pathway for the next woman to come in behind them to be able to take up more space in those environments. They kind of settle with being the only woman and the only representative for the hundreds or thousands of women behind them. But they’re the only voice, still, so that doesn’t contribute to the larger conversation and the larger issue. And so, I think that women being very intentional about supporting women, not just of their particular group or -ism, as they like to say, but all women of all different groups.
And being intentional about that, I think it’s standing on, you know, 10 toes down on the fact that they want to see other women rise to those same levels, and other women have those same opportunities. And being as intentional as men are in that regard. Because let’s just be honest, men are going to hire who they want to hire, and it’s going to be their, their friend, their college buddy, or their college buddy’s son, like they’re going to be intentional about making sure that they look out for other men, and women and other groups who are traditionally marginalized, don’t take that same approach. I understand, it’s mostly out of fear. But if we don’t take that same approach, then we’ll continue to go down this rabbit hole of doing the most work and receiving the less, the least reward. And so that’s kind of where we are right now.
TD think that’s so true. One of the things that that spoke volumes is, I think it was a Convening Leaders, a conversation with their CEOs. One of the questions was asked to one of the female leaders, that was entrepreneurs who were actually on that panel. And they asked her where her support came from, mostly: was it women and men? And the majority of women raised their hands to say what she said: a man. And everybody seemed so shocked. And then the guy, the moderator was so shocked, and it was like, they asked the question to everybody, “How many of you feel that you’re unsupported by women, out of many of your biggest supporters that kind of helped you get up the ladder?” And 90% of the women, myself included, raised our hands. And it’s for the reason, unfortunately, that Jasmine said, while men definitely will support men, the thing is because men aren’t threatened by women, right? That’s, that’s the first thing.
And so, they’re willing to help you because they’re not threatened by you, they’re not worried about you taking their position, if you will. And so the opposite is true for women, though, women because it’s so scarce for us to get to these positions. And because we fought so hard to get there, we’re so afraid of someone taking our position, or looking better than us, so that we don’t support them, or only to us, or for the ones that we have as our subordinates, we don’t train them to rise to where we are so that they can move higher—we just want to stay there because we finally made it. But if mentality changes and we say, “Well, I can’t go forward, if I don’t pull somebody to replace me, I want another woman here, so that I can move women to the next position that there aren’t many women.” And we keep that ball rolling. And then it will become the norm to see women in executive level and CEO positions.
But we are so threatened, because, it can only be one and I finally made it and I don’t want nobody to take my place. Yeah, and then you just got the one and then not the norm. If it became the norm to see women in these roles, it wouldn’t be an issue. I know women can do it, a man wouldn’t hesitate to hire a woman for boards, right? A lot of the time these things are governed by boards, when you get to a certain level, they wouldn’t have the insecurity about hiring a woman at the top because they know that she can do it. The problem is, they don’t see enough of us in these positions and don’t think that we could successfully succeed. And so therefore it doesn’t happen. But to Jasmine’s point, the women have to be secure enough in their position. If you know you are great, you got to go for it. And you have to be okay with training other women and pulling other women up from your position, so that you can continue to move up. And then it just becomes a norm: the best person gets the job, period.
SR I was just gonna say I think that you make a really important point when you bring up competition between women. I think that competition between women exists far and wide. It exists in grade school, it exists in the workplace, you know, and it just sets all of us back. But I’m wondering if you could speak more about, you know, what does a healthy woman-centered mentorship relationship look like?
TD I think, I think, one of the things, and I, it might have been in Smart Meetings, actually, it was in a magazine, but one of the things that they said was to be a great leader, is to basically train other leaders. To be a great leader, you have to, “I am training you to not only just to be able to step into my feet and lead, but also to be even better than me,” right? So, I’m trying to put you in a position to be where I am. Because, again, I want to move. and I think we just don’t do that. I think I personally have been in the positions where I’m on a need-to-know basis, the information sharing, it’s not there to give people the education and the knowledge that they need to learn about the job or the thing. And I think because we just don’t do that, we should be training other leaders, to train other leaders. A
nd to me, a leader is not by title, right? So it doesn’t, I don’t need to be a CEO to be a great leader, right? I don’t need to be that person. I just need to be able to give you the information that you need, it’s gonna help you succeed, period. And when I am, or you’re exceeding where I am, it’s fine. Because again, you and, and the goal is to make sure I tell you to pay it forward. So you do the same thing. Whenever you gotta get information, whenever you’re trying to navigate, and help people navigate our industry, which is far and wide, it can be intimidating. If they’re new to it, train them, show them, share information, doesn’t matter whether they do it in that particular job or not.
Share the information, give them the knowledge and help them, and I think that is really the main thing. We have to train people and be okay with it, with training other people to be leaders. Leaders train other leaders, and that, you want to do that. And I think that is the thing that we really need, if we get there. I mean, forget about it. Because everybody will not be just such a cocoon that they just don’t know, open, share the information. It’s okay. Nobody can steal your position from you. You are who you are. Right. You are who you say you are. Nobody will ever be, honestly, able to really truly take your position.
JD Yeah, I think for me, a great mentorship relationship involves just as a mentor being a door opener, so introducing the person you mentor into spaces, into environments that they may have not been exposed to before. Because one thing that I know, and throughout my journey of life in general, is that exposure is everything. So a lot of times, mentorship is kind of like this, raising a child conversation, where you’re molding this person into who you want them to be, or who or, into you, a lot of times, versus just being a door opener, opening the door, introducing them into the room and having them, you know, place, placing them in certain environments, introducing them to the right folks, getting them access to the right resources and information, so that they can take all of those things for themselves, and build the life, the career, the business, whatever that they desire. And I think that is what the hallmark of good mentorship is. Because a lot of times those relationships get kind of convoluted when you don’t get the position or the person doesn’t come work for your company or you, so on and so forth, it becomes a little too personal. Versus as a mentor, me just being a door opener, if you expose you, like she said, the events and hospitality industry is so vast.
So if I’m mentoring someone who’s an emerging professional in the industry, it is my job just to open the doors, open all the doors to the right people, to the right places, to the right information, to the right conversations, and allowing them to take all of that stuff in, and then helping them to facilitate a plan for their life, in their career, that makes sense for them. And not necessarily doing it for them or giving them all the answers, but just being a resource so that they can build their own relationships, build their own resource—you know, diaries—get their own knowledge and tools and figure things out for themselves. Because to her point, as a leader, it is your job to build other leaders, but leaders need a level of autonomy as well. So you have to be able to make your own decisions, you have to be able to know your own things. And you can’t be so heavily reliant on another person in order to get the job done.
And so for me, the hallmark of good mentorship is just opening the doors, giving you the right resources and information so that you can you know, take what you will, I like to say “Eat the meat, spit out the bones,” right? Say all the things you need to develop the plan and the strategy that works for you, and then helping you fine tune it along the way. It’s an ever evolving relationship. And even once, or if, we get to the point where we need to bring in some other folks because, you know, I can no longer serve you being a, you know, knowledgeable enough and humble enough to say, “Well, maybe I should pass you off to this person. Or maybe I should pass you off here to that person or, or in that direction, so that you can get what you need.”
TD I mean, I would say, eve, even right now I’ve always been kind of the mama bear, and especially to a lot of the millennials in our industry. And maybe I had an affinity for it because I had one, but, and I watched them today being very successful. I see people who were salespeople in hotels, when I was visiting a hotel and other cities, for, now on a different side. And because I walked in, it’s like, “Hey, do you know about PCMA? Hey, or do you have access to this? Has someone told you about this organization? do this on your own if even if they won’t pay for it.”
Because I’m also a believer that you cannot expect somebody else to pay for your own, for your education and for your knowledge. If you believe it enough, that, in yourself, that you need to make the investment in yourself, if you’re really trying to get to that next level. But I watch where they are today. And I’m so, so very proud of them. Because these are all people that I just said, gave them information, introduce them, “Hey, do you know such and such?” Brought them into the room, no matter what their position was, and made them feel like they belonged. Right? And I think that’s the other thing is the sense of belonging. And sometimes it was like, “Oh, um, you know, you’re this title and I’m this—” No, I’m not no better than you. Titles don’t make you, right? And so at the end of the day, if you make people feel like they belong, then they’ll get comfortable. And if they feel comfortable, then they will want to proceed. Or they will ask questions, though, they’ll get the extra knowledge, then, they won’t be afraid to soar and move forward.
But I think it’s when we don’t, when we act like “You’re not ready for this” or “You haven’t been paid your dues,” which is a thing that I really hate to hear, that kind of thing, then you make them fearful of trying to pursue something that they may really want to do, because you think they’re not ready. Well, make them ready! Give them the information, bring them into the room, give them a seat at your table, let them hear, let them share and like she said, then they can take that knowledge to become their own individual and figure out what their successful their career path is. But it’s opening doors, it’s sharing the information. It’s doing that because I know, for me, when I started, I didn’t have, I had one person do that for me. And I understood how powerful that was. And then I continue to do it for other people, because I know how I felt when first coming into the industry, and so I’m making a point to make sure that I do that for all the emerging leaders, which is the reason why I’m still on that committee today. Actually, I was on that Inaugural Committee, and still serve on that committee today, when it first started in 2000.
SR Wow!
EP Wow, that’s really cool.
TD It’s called Emerging Leaders, for PCMA, when it first started to emerge, yeah, 2005 was the first year, but I’ve always served on it, because I believe in that next generation, that future. We need them, because that’s how we continue to grow, and stay innovative.
EP Is that, in your opinion, like how we can become a more, like, you know, I don’t want to say feared but, you know, just a more, just, just a group that is taken more seriously, in terms?
TD Absolutely. Here’s the thing, the one thing I have learned for sure, is at the end of the day, it’s kind of the old adage is not, you know they say, you know, it’s not what you know; it’s who you know. That, that part is true. But I think more importantly, the person who has influence is key. So it doesn’t matter whether you are the CEO, or you’re a big executive, or whatever, if you don’t have influence, you have nothing, because that means you have the ear of the people who matter, if that makes sense, right? And so I have been able to get a lot more done than a lot of executives that, you know, hold really big titles, and that’s because of my relationships and because of money, right?
SR How do you form those relationships? How do you build that influence authentically?
TD Being who you are! And I think it’s contagious, right? One thing about me, and people who’ve met me 20 something years ago, in this industry today, “Tyra Dyson hasn’t changed,” right? And I’m saying from a baseline of the person that I am, always wanting to help people, always being there. If I say I’m going to do something or be somewhere, I’m there. If you invited me to something, I’m coming. And yes, it’s, it’s, it was tiring somethings, it’s nice, sometimes, sometimes I didn’t feel like it. But if I say I’m gonna be there. But one thing, and my one of the businesses that I talked about earlier, we always said you had to show up to blow up, right? And so you never know the conversation is gonna happen when you’re in that room.
And then I was, so many times, I was like, tag, I was glad I came. Because I made a connection that I might have never been able to make if I didn’t go right, I got to meet the person that I was looking to meet to help me in another thing, right? Well, I was there to help that they were looking for. So I think you know, showing up being authentically who you are. Being a genuine person—people can see that about you. And I think that’s how I did, I build relationships, I talk to people, you know. It’s something that people have to get comfortable doing. Jasmine is naturally an introvert, but I will give it to her, she’s gotten a lot better. And I think too, because she, in the world of the influencer days, we understand the power of that. But I definitely learned the power of networking. Because everything that you do in life is a relationship, is relationship-based.
Again, like she said, people are going to give the business to their friend, to the people that they know, to the people that they feel most comfortable with. And so you have to be in the spaces, of meeting people, so that you’re top of mind when someone thinks about something like, “Oh my gosh, you know what? This conversation, but you need to reach out to Eming, she was great. She does this. She’s a good person to talk to…Oh, look, I know someone like that…Sara’s awesome, call her over at Smart Meetings, they do podcasts, if you’re trying to get a podcast out there.” You know, these are how these conversations happen. And when you speak someone’s name, when they’re not in the room and provide a recommendation, people, you will remember that, right? You will remember that, if someone called and said, “Hey, I was looking for this. Tyra Dyson recommended you.”
When I say inputs, if I say it, most people are like, “Okay, you stamped it, it’s golden, it’s good. Let me call and hire that person.” And that’s how we can continue to build and share and give each other the platforms, right, that we need to get to. And to stay successful is the sharing, or not being afraid of someone doing better. We, we have a, one of our signature talks is “Collaboration over competition,” because there’s no need for competition. And if you always say yourself, you will never ever be in a competition.
JD I would say, for professionals in any industry, because I have to do it naturally because I own a business and that’s just a part of what it is. But think a lot of times, people who work for like larger organizations, or even small ones, professionals who, you know, work for companies every day, your identity kind of falls under the umbrella of the organization versus your share in your subject matter expertise from, as Sara, or as Eming, and I think that’s how you build intentional relationships is, you know, being intentional, or, being authentic about sharing your space.
Whatever it is that you specialize in, whatever it is that you geek out on, whatever it is that you can be a resource to some other person for or about, being intentional about sharing that knowledge, sharing that information. I’m sharing those resources with people, and then asking them for connections and other areas, right? Hey, I am you know, I am a producer for podcasts, if anybody needs, is looking for, you know, information, want to start a podcast, let’s have a quick coffee chat. Like that’s something easy. It’ll be a 50 minute conversation that you could have on the phone with somebody, but they may come you know, you can say in the same conversation, I’m looking for a resource in this. And so, you guys come to the table sharing intentional resources and swapping connections that you both can use. And then that’s how you continue on. A lot of times, folks who work in certain, you know, environments and organizations, you wait for the big industry conference that comes at the end of the year, you wait for the big networking event that everyone goes to. And that’s your one and only chance to build intentional connections with folks where right now we all have the internet.
So, anyone can get on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I’m So and So, this is my thing. I’m looking for someone who specializes in this, if you’re that person, let’s connect; I want to build a, you know, a connection with you. And so that’s a way to kind of start to build those relationships without having to be, like she said, the extrovert that goes to any and every event that people invited her to. Now, it works, it absolutely works, because of her being present and being visible. It has, you know, been a huge part of her success in her career. But there’s the, I think, the most important thing about it is, is being intentional. So, her intentionally showing up for everyone, every time she’s invited somewhere has gone in her a certain level of results. So, the same can be applied in other facets as well.
SR Yea, as someone who has, like, called myself an introvert my entire life, and only, only in recent years have I sort of learned to like, emerge from my shell. I’ve gotten better, I’ve gotten better. But you know, like Jasmine, you know, you’ve had to, like, work for it to just be a little bit more outgoing. But I was, oh my gosh, I was so shy when I was a kid, like, I had such a hard time talking to people and making friends. Anyway, all of that being said, I do think that, you know, like introverts, you can, it can kind of be a superpower too, because like, as much as Tyra can go out to these events and like make these connections, you prove your reliability by doing so. And Jasmine, I think that like being, like, more on the introverted end of the of the like social spectrum. Yeah, it’s like, you can really, really nail those like, deep personal connections and like, prove yourself to be like trusted and honest and authentic. And like, you know, it’s earned.
JD I agree with that.
TD Yeah, I think just being who you say you are, during the thing, right? If that’s what you say you are, then just be that person. But I do think you do have to have a certain level of sharing. And I think that’s the thing that Jasmine has definitely gotten better at, is that she is so super dope. But I don’t think that she shares it enough, especially being a business owner. And unfortunately, we do know, it’s unfortunately, like, you know, it’s almost like, you know, in this world that we currently live in, in a social media age, you kind of have to show it right. And at the end of the day, people are taking it for real or for whatever it is. But if you don’t present it and show that, because people who are not even as talented as she is have, are millionaires and multimillionaires, because some of them are her clients. But because they aren’t afraid to just put it out there and say, you know, I can do this thing and whatever, and people immediately that person has come into their mind because just like the commercials that we naturally see, we know the jingle just because we hear it enough, right? Or we see colors enough. And you equate that to a thing. And so, I don’t think, you know, you still do have to share, whether that’s on social media. Hey, I did this. Listen, it is okay to celebrate your small wins.
It’s okay to celebrate yourself. And I think talking about women, that’s another thing that women do not do another, a good job at and we are so afraid to share our wins or our accomplishments with something, no matter how small, because we are so worried about what others are going to think. I look too cocky or I’m gonna look you know, like I’m arrogant or someone’s gonna say, oh, oh, I’m not being humble enough—another one I hate. Celebrate—Listen, men do not hesitate. Okay. Men will have way less, experience, and all of that stuff and still say I’m the man and pay me all of this and I’ve never done anything in my life. But I still think I deserve that money. And guess what, nine times out of ten, they get it, because they went in there saying, This is what I want, and they don’t care what’s on paper. But a woman, we will be qualified for 19 out of the 20 responsibilities that that job is asking for and because we don’t have the one, we won’t apply. Right? They’ll have 90%, don’t care, and then tell you what they want, and get it. And yeah, or we think we’ll start to negotiate. And I think that’s what women do, we start to negotiate with them. And, we negotiate ourselves down, is what happens. Share those small wins! I don’t care. Like, here’s the thing that I really love right now I see on LinkedIn.
Now, every time somebody gets an award, when they get a certificate, they’re like, “Just got this new certificate!” I love for us, because we would never have done that before. And when people started doing it, what happens it makes other people more comfortable about doing, sharing their accomplishments, no matter how small, because it’s the small wins that lead you up to like the big thing, right? So, it’s okay to share, share what you do. Tell other people, but, “Oh, I don’t share. I don’t share that. That’s personal.” Well, you—listen, the one thing that we found out during a pandemic, Jasmine and I had trained so many people, and we kept telling people that got these side jobs because their job wasn’t paying enough. And these women were trying to make the ends meet. And they were excellent at these other things. And they kept saying, and we kept saying, Okay, now she, “Oh, no, I gotta keep that separate.” Why? When the pandemic hit, and you lost your job, and you didn’t know where your next meal was coming from, because you did this thing for 20 something years, and you always was a great, excellent cook, or baker, or you made things that you just kind of sold at your kids bake sale.
That was where now all of a sudden, everybody in the world started the businesses of the thing that they were already doing that we told them to share. And now they’re like, they don’t care. They share everything. But we tried to tell you, share that, because then people can buy into that, because I’ve seen you talk about that before. You can do that for me. I know you can. Because I remember you saying that, I’ve seen it. So, I think we’ve gotten a lot better at sharing, but I think we still need to do more. Celebrate. It doesn’t matter what, and stop worrying about what people think.
SR Yeah. What’s really important to with like, you know, sharing and, like, feeling comfortable sharing is like having those strong female relationships having those like women supporting women, you know, like, when somebody shares, champion them.
TD Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And that’s all people are—Like, I say they we allm listen, we don’t do things for someone to pat us on the back. But it’s nice when we know we do deserve it, right? When they do give us that. And I think that’s the thing, because it’s the confidence that you need to keep going, to keep doing the thing. And sometimes when you put something out there, and its crickets, you don’t hear anything back, then we crawl back up into a shell. And like you said, let’s champion the women, when they are making strides, when they are accomplishing things, because we don’t know how hard it was for them to accomplish that thing that looks so small to us, but might have been a big thing to them. So, you got to give them that, you give them their flowers right now, and tell them “You go girl, you keep going. And if I can help you with anything, let me know, how can I help? How can I help you continue on that journey of being the person that you want to be?” That’s it.
EP So, on your personal life roads, that you’ve both been on what has been the advice that you that you’ve gotten, from what, from whenever, when you were younger, when you’re older, whichever. That was the best thing that, like, really made you feel seen and just made you feel like I know what I need to do with this information.
TD I think, for me, it wasn’t…sorry.
[phone rings]
SR Ringtone!
[laughter]
SR That’s a good ring tone.
TD I think, no one was actually, I think, for me—two things. My mom, my mom was a very, very confident woman. She didn’t have a lot, growing up, had a very light education growing up as well. But the one thing she was, she was very confident in who she was. And she never apologized for it. And my mother may have had $25, if anything in her pocket, but she always looked like 1,000 bucks. And when she was the epitome of, she didn’t look like what she had been through in her life. And I think watching her, for me, gave me the confidence to be okay in the space. They gave me the confidence to walk into a room. And still to this day, lot of times, especially if I go on FAMs or familiarization tours, even at conferences, you know, African American women, we are still the minority in this world, in our industries, and especially when you start talking about C-suites.
So often I am the only African American on a trip, on a thing, you know what I mean? And so, first of all, she gave me that confidence to be okay and never be ashamed of who I am or where I came from, no matter my educational background or whatever. And she gave me that, and I think she gave me that confidence. So, when I was working in spaces and being treated like less than, or other Black women wouldn’t give me an opportunity, or white women wouldn’t give me an opportunity, or a men, whomever that was, it’s a very lonely feeling. And I think I had to remember who I was, and that I was deserving. And so, I started to just be who I was, right? And knew that I deserved to be there and kept striving for it, versus letting it set, let it set me back. And then, when I worked with other women who were around me, who felt like they weren’t worthy, I encouraged them.
And I think that was the main thing, I think you encourage other people, to the level of confidence that you, even if you don’t have it, encourage somebody else. And so maybe watching them succeed, will then give you the confidence to go ahead and do it. Because a lot of times we can do for others what we can’t do for ourselves, right? And so I think for me, having gone through that, and not having people in our industry, you know, revere me or, give me the, make me feel confident, like I deserve to be in a certain position, made me do it, want to go more, right. want to go harder, and I knew I was deserving. So, I kept pushing, I kept showing up, I kept entering the spaces, I kept going for the thing. And then I kept encouraging other women to do the exact same thing as me. And men too. I mean, it’s funny, I got an email maybe about two weeks ago from one of my old co-workers, Dimitri. And he was just saying, just watching me and what I’m doing. And that’s why I say sharing is important. And what I’ve done, has given him so much confidence, that he thanked me even for the nuggets that I gave him and mentoring him when we work together because I do that everywhere I go. But watching my journey and just watching the things that I’m doing, it inspires them.
And people, Jasmine inspires me, other millennials inspire me to keep going because again, I’m a person that’s, I’m over 50 years old. And yes, we felt the ageism, I have to say it, in our industry and being pushed aside or we don’t know. And, you know, we need to go from, you know, not being looked at, you know, now is that we can still go and I’m like no, but these, but they inspire me to keep going and people my age and even older, inspire me keep going. And that’s why the sharing part is so important, because they’re inspiring me. I’m like “You go girl.” Now if the industry was this wide open when I was their age, I probably would be even further. But I think I’m always where I’m supposed to be in doing the thing that I’m supposed to do. So, it’s good, because maybe it was to help you guys get the confidence, so it was easier for you, coming in. And I think that for me, is the thing.
So, I learned by being in and when the person took the time—and I have to give him a shout out, Victor Robinson—he left the industry not long after I got into it, he’d already been in for 20 years. But the first thing that he did was, hey, he was very well known. It’s like, if people walked up to talk to him, if we were standing together, and over the day, he was like, he would pause and say, “Do you know Tyra?” That made me feel like I belonged. Like, don’t discard this person. Because you, you know, hey, “Do you know Tyra?” And, and he introduced me, and I to this day, do that for everybody. So that is one of the great things that helped me, and I made sure that I reciprocated that with other people. Because it’s hard, like you said, well, you don’t know people. And people sometimes can discard you, like you’re not important enough to even be introduced, and so just that one small thing can give you the confidence and make you feel like, okay, I belong in this. And thank you for that. And I know what that meant for me. And then I continue to do the same thing.
SR It really makes all the difference to like, lift each other up.
TD Yeah. Yeah, nobody is too small.
JD I would say for me similarly, because we are related. So, I too, grew up with a high level of confidence. I’ve always, forever, believed that I could do anything. And I think that level of belief, thank God has carried me throughout my entire life. Like,
TD I told you that!
JD I really, I really have a massive belief in myself. And I think that a lot of the things that I’ve been able to accomplish is because I don’t believe that it’s not possible. And so, it’s kind of like a childlike ignorance, almost. And so, even in the mentoring that I do with young people, I always tell their parents like, allow them to keep that childlike innocence and that childlike belief, like when you’re a kid, you don’t believe that anything that you say that you want to become in the world is impossible. You just believe that. You just say you want to do a thing and it just comes, it’s just going to come to fruition in your mind. You don’t believe that there’s any barriers to success. I think life, and life experiences, teaches us that there are limits. That there are boundaries. That there is maybe not enough for everyone else. But when you’re a kid you just believe that the world is an oyster, and everything is possible, and the sky is not even the limit.
And so for me, one of the things that I’ve had to do in my entrepreneurship journey, because it is tough to keep that level, for me, is just to constantly remind myself of that childlike innocence, of that childlike belief that anything is possible. And so, you know, the world we live in, and social media and seeing other people’s successes does help to be able to keep that, but I think it’s something that you just have to really practice and really be intentional about for yourself. And give that to other people as well. I think, you know, I, even as a business coach, and people who works with people who have big ideas, I never tell anyone that their idea is impossible. My, you know, I’m always like, okay, let’s figure out how we’re going to make this happen. And then through the process, we fine tune it to get it to a place that makes sense for them.
Um, but, I’m never going to tell you that that sounds crazy, and it’s impossible, because, you know, I think for all of us, you know, especially people who are business owners, or have big dreams, even if your dream is to become—even when I was in college, because I have a degree in healthcare management. And so when I was in college, I didn’t say, most people will have that degree, go into the public health sector in some sorts, and do policy or some something of the sorts. I was like, I’m going to be the CEO of a hospital. That was, that was my dream. I never said, I’m like, I’m going to graduate. And I’m going to be the CEO of a hospital. And at the time, when I was in college, I worked for Johns Hopkins health system, which is one of the largest health systems in the country, and it’s big and it’s grand, and all that was going on there. I was like, I’m going to run this one day. And I didn’t say, I didn’t take business classes and all that stuff. I didn’t know a CEO, I barely knew a person who owned a business.
In my mind, I’m just like, I’m going to be the CEO, I’m not going to settle for being the manager here or the person there that pushes the paper, I’m going to be the CEO. And that was always my mentality. So, even when I started the business, I never believed that I couldn’t be the CEO of this thing, because I’m like, I’m supposed to be the CEO of Johns Hopkins. You know, in my mind, and I say that to, a lot of times, especially for women, because like she said, it’s so easy for women talk themselves out of their dreams, to talk themselves out of their goals to talk themselves out of their big ideas, especially because, a lot of times for most women, it’s not just about them. You have families, you have children, you have other responsibilities that a lot of times you put before yourself.
So, it’s hard for you to believe big for the thing that you want out of life, because you have all these other things to contend with. Whereas on the other side, men can have children, they can have families, they can have other responsibilities, but they understand that prioritizing themselves and making them, getting themselves to the highest level of fulfillment, of success, or whatever, contributes to everybody else doing well as well. And for some reason, as women, we connect those dots, we don’t believe that if I go to the highest level of fulfillment, of joy, of peace, of success, then I can be a better mom, a better wife, a better friend, a better whoever, to all the people that are connected to me. And so, for me, it’s always a constant reminder to keep believing big.
Anytime I’m coming up with a new idea, whatever initial number I come up with, I’m like, no, let’s double it. Because in my mind, I need to see it much bigger than the innate thing that comes to me, because that allows me to really go for it, and really stand and really get what I deserve. Because most of us aren’t trained in our minds to initially ask for the thing we deserve. We ask for the thing that we think we can get, or maybe a little more than that, but never all the way to the top, the big thing that we deserve. And so always have a mindset of like, believing bigger than the initial idea that I’ve always had.
TD Because women are always trying to make the other person comfortable. Right? And so, like she said, we won’t ask for the big thing that we really want, we’ll ask for what we think is going to make us comfortable and not make somebody else uncomfortable. And so therefore, again, we do le ourselves down, and then we think we’re doing something and we’re like, okay, well I think really want this, but I’m not gonna, so I’ll just go in the middle. And then we ask for that, and they’re like, okay, and they say it too quick.
And then we go like, dammit, I should have, rig? how many times you think, I should have asked for more. I should have did that. And I think we just don’t automatically go for the north star. Right, we just go right middle of the road, because we don’t want to talk ourselves out of the job. You know, so we don’t want to do that. And again, we’re so innate and I think we do that too much and, in our lives holistically, with our children with our…We don’t do the thing that we want, right, we do the thing that we think is gonna make us comfortable and not make somebody else uncomfortable. Always trying to please. But at the end, I think it’s bad for us because then we become resentful. And then later on when you have an empty nester, and you’re like, I could have did this and I didn’t, have, you…So then now you live in with a sense of resentment.
And I’m saying at the end of the day, one of the things Jasmine’s always said this, and to her point, she has said it, and because of course, I do come from a different generation. I was like, What? No, but it’s true. Why can’t we have it all? Why can’t I be the mom? The why the CEO? Why can’t have it all? Because guess what? The husbands are. The husbands, the dads, the CEOs. So why can’t the moms? Their husbands can have it all. But for what reason is the moms can’t? They can be a husband, they can be a dad, they can be a CEO, all at the same time. But for women, we like, well just when the kids get here, then I’ll do this. And then when they do this and all, oh but he gets, like. We always put ourselves on the backburner. But I think you can absolutely do it all. You have to believe that you can. And then everybody else will fall in line and you create your boundaries at home.
The same with your family, and your children and your spouse, the same way you create boundaries at work, and like, Hey, this is my goal. This is what I’m trying to do. And so, you guys do your part. So mommy can do her part. Husband, you do your part. So you know what I mean. And we work that thing together. And if people aren’t in line with that, you got to put you first at the end of the day, because that’s how health issues and all these other things. I think far too many women, and we’re not talking about that but I do want to address that, is I have seen too far too many women in their 50s are dying and below are dying, health disease, heart disease, having strokes and—fifty, who does that at 50? You’re not, I mean, the stresses of the world, of the workplace of the family, we let all of these things consume us. And we have to take care of ourselves first. And that comes from whatever makes you happy. Do that thing. And everybody else has to fall behind.
SR Absolutely. So Smart Start listeners, we have a couple of phenomenal additions to your toolbox, thanks to Tyra and Jasmine. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself, believe in yourself, believe in yourself. We cannot say it enough. And in the words of Jasmine Dyson, just like oh my gosh, I forgot what you said. I’m sorry. You said something beyond believing yourself, that was so beautiful.
JD I said believe bigger. Believe bigger.
SR Yes. Yes. Oh! You know what you said, you know what you said, I’m never gonna forget this again. Do not talk yourself out of your dreams.
JD Yes.
SR Do not talk yourself out of your dreams. So that’s the second tier to “believe in yourself.”
EP That was poetry.
SR It was. It was it was and I’m actually never gonna forget it. I’m going to write that down. Um, and, be authentic to yourself. Believe in the authentic version of yourself. And when you see that happening, and you see somebody else succeeding and doing that, lift each other up. Lift up your peers. We cannot do this alone. Tyra and Jasmine, thank you so much for being here today.
TD You’re absolutely welcome. Thank you for having us.
JD Thank you for having us.
EP Of course. Thank you so much.
