Smart Start: Elevating Events with Joy

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In this episode of Smart Start Radio, Smart Meetings editors Eming Piansay and Sara Robertson sat down with Jacques Martiquet, the “Party Scientist,” who shares his unique approach to transforming events into high-energy, deeply connected experiences. Discover how event planners can design gatherings that are more joyful and impactful, creating memorable moments that go beyond the ordinary.

Sara Robertson also spoke with Allison Diange, senior sales manager at The Reach Key West, to learn more about the unique team-building programming the property has recently rolled out, and how it helps foster genuine, lasting connection among attendees.

Editor’s note: This interview has been transcribed by Otter.ai and lightly edited. 

Eming Piansay How’s it going, Smart Start Radio? Happy to e-meet you all over again for the month of November. I’m your co-host, Eming Piansay.

Sara Robertson And I am your co-host, Sara Robertson. I was gonna jump in and say that you’re e-meet Eming, because you did that in the last episode.

EP Yep.

SR E-meeting Eming.

EP I couldn’t think of another thing. I was like, I’m just gonna reuse it in a different way.

SR You already did it. You already did it, but it’s so good. You said, E-Meet, and I was like, haha Eming, yeah.

EP Yeah! Well, we’re also e-meeting some, some new friends, some old friends, on this podcast. If you haven’t heard us before and you’re new to our corporate girly meetings podcast, welcome, welcome.

SR We’re really gonna call it that.

EP Hey, if you know, you know, if you know, you know, it’s a corporate girly podcast.

SR It is a corporate girly podcast. We love it. It’s so fun.

EP How are you, Sara, how are you doing today?

SR I am really thrilled to be doing this corporate girly podcast with you.

EP That’s not our name, technically, but

SR I know, I know

EP I do like the name. I do like the nickname.

SR It’s fun. It is very Gen Z of us.

EP Except I’m considerably older.

SR I am actually Gen Z, so.

EP Yes, Sara is Gen Z. She certified Gen Z. I, on the other hand, am certified old lady, millennial, so.

SR You are not old.

EP Okay, we’ll debate that on a different podcast.

SR You’re very cool, hip and fun. You know, who else is cool, hip and fun? You know, who else? Our guest today.

EP Yes, yes. So, it’s November, obviously, and we kind of wanted to touch on the fact that, you know, it’s that time where everybody’s going to their work holiday shindig. And another aspect of that is, you know, when you’re there, you’re there and you’re eating, and there’s libations, drinks, sometimes it’s alcoholic drinks at these events, and

SR Libations is a good word.

EP We kind of wanted to explore, you know, Sara, have you ever gone to, like, an event like that where you had to, like, you know, there was the option, an option of, like, having a wine or a whiskey or a lemon drop?

SR Or, or a soda.

EP Or a soda, or in some cases, for some folks in our office, a coffee. But we just kind of wanted to explore the topic of, you know, not always having to go down that road in, in your way of celebrating. Some people actively choose not to.

SR And particularly in this industry, it’s been said more and more that alcohol is so infused into—pun not intended—infused into our industry, in the way that we gather it’s almost expected, but for those people who maybe one, just choose not to drink for whatever reason, that’s completely valid, and they maybe aren’t offered those options. And then also, it’s just this concept of you don’t have to have a glass of alcohol in your hand to really accomplish your goals. Like it may make us more comfortable with networking or meeting new people, or just being in an unfamiliar space, especially in the age of remote work. But that’s not necessarily the only or most impactful way that we can connect, and that’s really just one aspect of this topic that we’re going to get into today.

EP Yeah, like on a personal level, when I was a little bit younger, Sara’s age, could say I felt, no, I don’t want to say pressure, but I felt like I had to, you know, engage in that kind of, you know, social setting, because everyone else was, you know, and it’s easy to kind of, like, get kind of whisked away on that ride, and not knowing how to stop yourself, because everyone’s enjoying themselves, And why shouldn’t you. And so I think this particular conversation that Sara is going to gently lead us into, or one of them, definitely, you know, kind of gives the option of, like, you know, you don’t have to go with the flow. You can do your own flow.

SR Essentially, it’s like, you know, at these events, there are a lot of options to have alcoholic beverages, and there are also, I think people are calling, especially now, more for options to not and not feel uncomfortable saying that they don’t want to. You know, like part of it is just having a platform, holding something in your hand while you’re talking to people. Part of it, as Eming said, is because, well everybody else is doing it, I’m going to be the odd one out if I’m not. And that’s a really difficult feeling so, and that’s not to say that, you know, we shouldn’t have drinks at events. I love wine. I’m a little bit of a wine snob.

EP A wino or a wine snob?

SR Snob. A Sancerre, a good Sancerre, okay, yes, please. However, what we are going to dig into today is really, it’s really about the format that we present people, the format that we immerse people in that enables networking. And what is it that makes that networking truly successful? And how aware of our health are we? How aware of the health of our attendees are? Particularly the emotional, long term health? So, we’re going to start off by chatting about some basic team building concepts, although basic is the wrong word, because they’re really not. A little bit of a while ago…

EP Nothing’s basic in this podcast, Sara, don’t you know that?

SR Nothing’s basic in this podcast, no, we’re so cool. A little while ago, I spoke to Allison Diange. She is a senior sales manager at The Reach Key West, Curio Collection by Hilton. I spoke to her because I was writing a story on loneliness, which is coming out in our November issue. By the time you’re listening to this, it’s probably out. Please read it, I’m so proud of this story! She was talking about some of their team building programming that they’ve implemented, and a lot of what this team building programming focuses on is creating environments where people can forge lasting bonds. So, we’re just going to jump into it. Let’s hear what she has to say.

Allison Diange My name is Allison Diange, and I’m a senior sales manager for The Reach Key West, Curio Collection by Hilton.

SR When did the plans for these programs come up? Was there some sort of intention around creating programming geared for business groups and geared towards team building?

AD We are located in Key West. And Key West is a small island, mighty, but large in terms of things to see and do. And just some of the popular activities that we’ve decided to hone in are very destination based. And while team building has been popular, we’ve probably been releasing a pickup in a lot of these requests, post COVID. But some of them have been along for, you know, a longer period of time, such as, you know, Marianne, our on-site sand sculptor. She’s been doing, you know, workshops with us since 2011. Some of our local partners have been in here since, you know, early 2000 and beyond. So again, we have both kind of the old and new developing with us, and we’re always just trying to stay on top of the hottest topics that come our way.

SR Okay, so what kinds of programming do you offer?

AD So I’d say the most popular in terms of team building would be our navigated Island jet ski tour.

SR Cool!

AD And this departs right from property, and it’s super fun. It’s a 90 minute experience where you circumnavigate all of Key West and it’s really neat because it’s experiencing and seeing the island from the outside in. You’re going past all the important landmarks. You’re going past the southernmost buoy, you’re going past Mallory Square, but you’re seeing it from the less crowded, the water side of the island. You see tons of sea life along the way. You see dolphins and turtles, and of course, you stop at the local sandbar, because that’s what we do down in Key West. We enjoy our sandbars. And again, the guide will chat with you and give you the history throughout. And it’s just a really fun high adrenaline way to create memories with us.

I would also say I’m going back to Marianne, who’s been with us since 2011. She is a professional sand sculpture artist, and she’s been in residence with us for quite some time. And she does incredible workshops where she’ll just take a team of people, break them into teams, and challenge them and direct them and give them the tools to make these amazing sand sculptures. And I’ve had the privilege of doing one with her, and let me tell you, I have zero artistic ability in my bones. And what came out of me, I don’t know how it happened, but it was a work of art. So that’s a really fun way just to play with sand. Her company is just called Just Sand and Water. It’s amazing what you can do with just sand and water. We also have incredible private charters from Barefoot Billy’s. He is our local on-site water sports company. Fantastic friend to have, and he really takes care of our guests. You know, he really cultivates that local experience.

As I mentioned, you know, we would like to go out to our sandbars in Key West. We actually call them Sand Bar Sundays. So he’ll take you out on his private boats and bring you out to a secluded sandbar where all you need is a chair to sit in and a cooler full of cold drinks, and you are set for the day. So again, it’s really, you know, immersing the guests, giving the Key West experience, all while under the roof of The Reach.

SR Wonderful. And so, what is it about these programs that you think influences that team building atmosphere, where people are forming these authentic connections?

AD You know, it’s, it’s the all-around activities. I think team building now is more important than ever again going post-Covid, because so much of, of our attendees and ourselves are either remote based or they’re hybrid based, and that opportunity to kind of meet and, you know, speak around the water cooler doesn’t exist anymore. So we are creating water cooler experiences where your team is finally getting to hang out with each other again. See each other face to face. We’re building team cohesions. It’s networking. And you know, with each of these, particularly with Marianne, when she challenges you to build a sand sculpture, it’s problem solving, because it’s not just a straight on challenge. She throws, you know, little, little kinks in the chains to keep you on your toes, and you as a team have to come up with ways to meet these challenges that she presents. So, you know, it’s, again, it’s that problem solving and thinking together and, you know, getting together as one unit, instead of being separate entities of a company.

SR Right. And it’s all of these like, you know, like concrete skills that people are learning, or soft skills that people are learning about working with their team, and being part of a team hidden underneath a layer of something super fun is what it sounds like.

AD Absolutely.

EP That was great, Sara.

SR Yeah, she had some really interesting insights, I think, particularly when it comes to talking about the long term impacts of COVID and remote work and our world has changed. The way that we connect with one another has changed so it’s always been relevant, but now, more than ever, I think it’s really, really pressing to people to have truly impactful formats where they can actually connect with one another. And how do we facilitate that connection? There are a million different ways, but there are some specific things that we can be doing that really, really amp it up. So, our guest today is sort of—not sort of. Completely. An expert in that realm.

EP So you might remember this particular guest, he was featured on our other podcast. What one thing last year in 2023 I believe. So, Sara, you’ve met this person. Can you give us a little information about him?

SR Absolutely. So I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Jacques, or as you might know him, The Party Scientist, a few times. Now I first saw him, literally, like when I first started this job, I attended a conference online, and I honestly can’t even tell you which one, because I was a complete baby meetings industry writer. I watched his session remotely, and it was like, I was like, wow, this is a cool industry, like that looks so fun. So, I reached out to him, and I was like, hey, like, can I interview you? And, like, talk about this session? Because down the line, I came to realize not every—most sessions are not run like that. So, if you don’t know what The Party Scientist does, is, he brings people into the room, and he has just like this facilitation.

He basically, through these sessions, demonstrates what uber-successful facilitation can look like. He gets people standing up, dancing, laughing. At first, like, maybe it feels really awkward. I know that I would probably not be the first person to get up, but once you see people around you getting up and dancing and engaging in these really introspective questions that he has you ask one another, you find this immense sense of connection that we really kind of shy away from when we’re in meetings, because we have this like professional exterior, but at the end of the day, we’re people. That’s something that Jacques is very, very good at. Another time, I met him at a conference, and I think we had a conversation of like, oh my gosh, we’re the youngest people here. This is so crazy. And I was like, I don’t know anyone. He was like, let me introduce you.

Thank you, Jacques, for that. I really appreciated it. So, he is very, very skilled. If you haven’t had the chance to see him speak, I hope that you do someday. But for now, we are bringing him to you in an e-meet platform, and he is going to talk about everything he does, how he does it, and why, to inspire you, meeting prof, to invest in facilitation that creates lasting connection. And if you’re listening to this and you’re not watching the video, I did, just make a little heart.

EP But that’s not that’s the that’s not the Gen Z heart, isn’t another one?

SR I know, I know.

EP With the little fingers? I never remember how to do it, but.

SR I know, and my sister will make fun of me for it, if she’s watching this right now.

EP I’ll make sure to send her a copy. So, let’s get into it with Jacques.

SR Hello, Smart Meetings, Smart Start listeners, we are here today with Jacques Martiquet. He is The Party Scientist

EP That actually brought the party.

SR He did bring the party.

EP The literal party.

SR He does bring the party. I’ve actually seen him, and he blew my mind so much that I immediately sent him an email. I was new. I had just started at Smart Meetings. So, Jacques is very special to me, because he is actually the first person that I ever interviewed.

EP Fun facts, fun facts.

Jacques Martiquet Wow, the pressure is on!

SR Which is why he’s back here, because he was so nice to me, and he did bring the party. And I was like, after interviewing with him, I was like, I can interview anyone. Okay.

EP You gave her confidence.

SR You gave me confidence.

JM It was, it was a first for me too, because that was the first big events industry event that I presented at, and you were engaged virtually. And my producer didn’t expect me to get everyone running around the room, interacting, and she came up to me and she was like, we have to cut the virtual live stream. Like, this is, this is too erratic. She didn’t say erratic, but I thought the live stream had shut down. So, I’m so happy that you got value out of it, because we know, right, like the virtual, the virtual is different.

SR Definitely. So, it’s interesting because yes, I was a virtual attendee. And if you haven’t seen Jacques’s sessions, if you haven’t seen The Party Scientist’s sessions, you don’t know that this guy gets people out of their chairs, dancing, holding hands, laughing and smiling. It is nothing like you have ever seen, even just watching it virtually. I, as a person new to the industry, didn’t know what to expect, and I was like, whoa. This is really cool. I like this industry. But it’s actually not as common as I thought back then.

JM It’s all through peer pressure. If you don’t want to hold hands, you got—No, I’m totally kidding. Surprisingly, people all consent and do it, like and it’s al, it’s all permission based, and yet everyone participates, and it’s lovely. And the one that you saw was at WEC by MPI. And yeah, my, my, my producer came up to me afterward, and she said, I’ve never seen people participating like that in a workshop. And so I think that the takeaway here is that we can actually take more risks than we think, and people are more open minded and willing to experiment than we think, right? Because we have this, this like mental dialog that prevents us from taking risks, right? One on one connections, but also as event designers, because we have a fear, I have a fear, of making people uncomfortable. I don’t want to exclude people. I don’t want people to have negative experiences. But the irony is that when we let that fear guide us, then everyone has a mediocre experience, instead of 99% of people having a really positive, memorable experience, and one person saying, Hey, that was that was too much like a concert. That was too much energy for you know, right?

SR So Jacques, for people who don’t know, what do you actually do in your sessions? What do they look like?

JM People hear that I’m a party scientist, and they either think I’m a drug dealer or I just get people to, like, hug and touch each other. We’re allowed, yeah, we’re allowed to make these jokes here. Okay, so my purpose on this earth is to spread natural antidepressants. So for me, you know, sure it benefits productivity, sure Joy enhances our social intelligence, sure it improves psychological safety. It has all, it has all these outcomes that business leaders care about and these outcomes that we care about as event designers. But for me, it comes down to mental and physical thriving. And so, my purpose on this earth is to spread this natural antidepressant, which is joy multiplied by human connection. And my sessions are designed to give people that feeling, that feeling of electricity and connection, where we can’t really explain why we feel so connected with each other, but it’s, it’s emotional, it’s not merely intellectual, right? And then the second piece is, how do how do we develop skills and joy muscles so that we not only see human connection as this endless, limitless, free reservoir of joy, of natural joy. We don’t need to resort to smartphones, Tik-Tok, alcohol, the news, right? We have this endless reservoir of joy found in human connections with anyone, right? And then the, the second thing is, how do we give people those skills so that they can access that, that joy? How? Can we give them the practical techniques so that they can be energized by their connections instead of exhausted, right?

EP Kind of the whole point of this podcast is to be a resource for people who are either in the industry or want to enter the industry. So kind of what you’re talking about is something that I feel like is not necessarily, like, a not popular statement, but it’s more like, you know, we are so attached, like, phones and alcohol and things like that, to, like, elevate experiences for people who, like, don’t really understand, like, how you can build a genuine link between people in events. What’s something that you would say, like, how can you do that without adding the extra razzle dazzle that people look for, like, oh, how can I make my AV pop, how can I make my, my food and beverage pop? Like, you’re bringing a more authentic experience and making people actually be in the moment. So, kind of speak on that little bit like, how can you build more tangible events that are based on, you know, exterior things are more you know, how can I build this with you?

JM Yeah. Wow, wow. I feel so excited to answer your question because you’ve mentioned so many things. You’ve mentioned the norm versus like, what is possible. You’ve also mentioned this idea of being in the moment, right? And being with each other, and that, that’s, you know, that’s the fundamental piece, is, how do we promote interactions, social interactions at our event, where people are truly in the moment and connecting in a different state of consciousness? And we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about neuroscience and physiology in a second. But the last thing I just want to emphasize, and then let’s, let’s get into like, what it actually looks like, and what, what is the new norm that I want to spread in gatherings, and what does it physically look like? But you know, the norm.

I’ve written this article a few times, and every time I rewrite it, it gets better. It’s called PPP prioritizing, and P stands for placesthetics. So focusing most of our event budget on the venue and aesthetics, and then we have potions, which is like alcohol, and just not even alcohol, but just focusing a lot of time and effort on the beverages, like it’s is it really that is it really that important for people to have those amazing, meaningful connections, for them to have a fancy beverage in their hand, right? The third, the third is performers. And ultimately, speakers are performers, right? And that’s why I don’t describe myself as a speaker.

What performers do is, they put people into spectator mode. So they take out their phones, they film and, and I want to give you an example of this, because spectator mode is, is good and bad. It can be great to, you know, we’ve all been to a concert where we’ve been spectating, but it’s created emotional connection. So, I’m not saying, throw out spectator mode, but when you have people looking at each other in the eyes and contributing and participating, the possibility in the depth of human connection is way larger, right?

PAUSED 23:42

Okay, so spectator mode. And I want to tell you a story which, which, and I don’t mean to tell this story negatively, but at WCMPI, they must have spent a lot of money on a drone show, or it was a sponsor, but this drone show was… okay, so everyone’s on the dance floor, singing, smiling, and within 10 seconds, the event was shut down, and everyone was on their screen, everyone was filming, and it was so quick, and I just, I just noticed it. I was like, wow, this is the best example for how to halt human connection at your event, is through a drone show. Because everyone looks up to the sky and pulls out their phone, right? So, that’s like the norm, the three Ps, right? But the new norm is, how do we invite people into new styles of connection? How do we invite new social interactions?

And really, all that comes down to is more structure and more explicit invitations to our guests on how to connect. So listen, no one’s no one’s gonna walk up to someone at a cocktail bar and talk about what they’re grateful for, but we know that interactions like that improve connection and improve joy in our bloodstream. We know that, like the research is there, right? But no one’s going to do that because it’s not normal. So how do we invite guests through structure to elevate their mood and deepen their connections?

And that’s really the big difference, is moving away from non–structure to more structure and experimenting with different structures for creating these meaningful connections. And for me, that looks like games, movement, gratitude, mindfulness, you know, structured prompts, right? Structured check ins. And this is, this is what an opening ceremony is all about. Is in as short amount of time as possible. How do we shift social norms at an event so that everyone feels more permission to socialize outside of the box and so that’s really my highest recommendation to event producers, is to curate an opening ceremony that invites people to turn off their social autopilot. Yeah. So, wow, I didn’t know I was a

professor. I’m really wearing the lab coat.

The irony is that, like, I’m all about curiosity, and most people are like, “Jack, you never let me ask about yourself, you’re on a podcast.”

EP You’re fine. Okay, we love it.

SR We love it. While I have this chance, I would like to ask you a question. Okay, so you create this structure in your sessions, but I’m, I’m wondering if there are other ways to create the structure, what other forms can the structure take on? You know, say, an event planner wants to implement these ideas, but they’re not you, and they don’t want to do it in exactly the same way.

JM What you’re getting at is, can we create this structure without an expertise in facilitation, and facilitation is about being on a microphone, guiding people through activities and exercises, right? That is one way to create the structure, but there are other ways that are less effective, right? They’re less effective, but you can change the environment you can for example, I’ve been chatting with PCMA about this concept of the connection lounge or the storytelling net lounge where people come into this space, and the context of this space is very different.

The context is we’re going to share personal stories about ourselves, so we can create spaces where the social norms are different, and we can communicate those social norms to our guests. The other way that we can shift—the point of the structure is to change social norms and help people take off their armor, take off their masks, and connect on a more emotional level. Right? The other way that we can do that is through real communication, strategic communication, with our guests. And you know, oftentimes the norm is you register for an event. Anyone can register. There’s no social contract. You just show up. There’s not much communication. You’re told maybe about where the washrooms are and the agenda, pardon me, the restrooms.

So you’re told this logistical information, right? That’s how a lot of pre-communication goes. What if we were to change our pre-communication and set up a temporary world where the social norms are different, and what if we were to give people, like, a few tasks? For example, when I was at MPI Michigan’s event, we had the buttons with like, five things we love, and we wore them. And that was wonderful. That was a permission slip for anyone to ask me what I love. I have on this JabberYak button, it was customized.

SR I met them. Oh my gosh, they have awesome buttons. Yeah, I have one from them. Yeah. What’s your like, secret talent, or, like, hidden talent, or boring skill. I can untie any knot I have, like, literally never met a knot that I could not untie. Seriously, if you ever need like a knot untied or tangled necklaces, I am your girl. Fun fact, please continue.

JM That’s such a practical skill. Yeah, so JabberYak. Great example. I mean, like people with like as an example, like, I have this lab coat. It has my name on it. It has a little thing of serotonin, right? It’s, it’s an instant permission slip for people to come talk to me, right? So, how do we create those permission slips? How do we also change the nature of those permission slips so people get beneath the surface, right? So JabberYak is a great example. But another great example is just like, you give people name tags and they write down one of their favorite books, or they write down “Ask me this question,” right? So, so there’s a lot of ways to do this. So to sum it up, we’ve talked about how we can create these little zones in our events where the social norms are different, like a storytelling lounge. We can pre-communicate with our guests and say, Hey, this is, this is how we’re going to connect at our event. This is what we invite you to do at our event, right? These are the social norms.

We invite you to put down your phone. We invite you to turn off your phone. That’s another one of my number one recommendations that is very bold. Just have people turn off their phones. It’s I know, because so much of it is on the phone now, everything is on the phone. We have the event app, we have the agenda, but the phone is designed to hijack your attention, and when you have no attention, you don’t connect with people. Attention is like, and this is why, coming back to what I said about performers, right? Performers take attention away from human connection, and they’re great for showing off on social media.

If you want to show off your event on social media, performers are great. The drone show was great for showing off that event. But that is not what people are going to feel like. And so to sum it all up, pre-communication. We have the name tags, we have the physical environment. Do you two have any others to add beyond because we’ve talked about facilitation, physical environment. We have the name tags, and then we have the pre-communication. These are all ways to create the structure.

SR I’m interested in hearing, if you could speak a little bit to, you know, when people are in a breakout session or a thinking session at an event, you know, they’re in small groups and they’re supposed to discuss, how do you get people to come out of their shells and participate, particularly those people that are a little more shy or maybe just aren’t really sure, but they could come up with some of the best ideas, but they feel disincentivized from talking. How do you get people to interact in these small group settings when they maybe don’t have someone to facilitate or like teach them about this authentic connection that you do.

JM If I’m not in the breakout room? How can an event designer create these, these positive experiences for everyone, instead of just the extroverts? Yeah?

SR Yeah, yeah.

JM Well, I first just want to say I spend most of my time alone, and I have learned how to be an extrovert, and I have learned how to get energy from other humans, and so I, for anyone listening, be careful with the labels that we give each other, we give ourselves, because they can hold us back if we just say, if we label ourselves. But here’s the thing, introverts, they rock at one-on-one connection, right?

Like extroverts, they take up a lot of space, so and this is the point: Oftentimes, if you leave people to their devices, one person does most of the talking, right? And this is, this is a problem. We’ve all experienced this, right? We’ve all experienced being at an event and one person takes up all the airtime. Airtime is the concept, right? So how do we, in a breakout session like this, how do we invite everyone to share the airtime so that the people who are not all about, you know, sharing their ideas, how do we get them talking?

Because often that’s where the hidden wisdom is, in the people who are not immediately sharing. And so there’s a few ways to do this. Um, there’s there’s implementing, like, small little tools, like talking sticks. There’s implementing turn-taking in a breakout. Specifically, I’m talking about a round table discussion. And by the way, this is one of my recommendations to event producers, and I’m just going to bring this up. So this is, like, my philosophy for interpersonal joy, maybe if I turn this off.

SR So for those of you who are listening and not watching, Jacque is right now holding up a piece of paper that is displaying a chart, and I will let him explain it further.

JM This is the secret, come get it while it’s here. I haven’t, I haven’t figured that one out yet. Okay, so what I’m what I’m getting at, another big recommendation I have to event designers, event producers, community-centric sessions. Community-centric sessions, roundtable discussions, breakouts where there’s a facilitator instead of a speaker. This is an example of community-centric sessions. The keynote speaker that you spent, you know, $10,000 on, that is not a community centric session, unless that speaker gets people like looking at each other and connecting. So community-centric sessions.

How do we ensure that the airtime is shared and that the introverts and even the shy people come out and share their wonderful ideas? Well, we need some structure. We need to implement talking items so that people take turns and don’t just interrupt each other. We all know the feeling of being interrupted by someone who thinks they’re super intelligent, right? And the second thing is, how do we implement turn-taking? Turn-taking? We used to do it when we were children. “Oh, Jimmy, now it’s Sarah’s turn,” right? Like we remember the teacher telling us, maybe we can learn a little bit from kindergarten teachers here. The point is, when we implement turns, everyone has space to share without interruption, and there’s an explicit invitation for people to share.

So what, what I’ve learned is, if I don’t, if I don’t implement turns, probably three people will speak. But if I’m in a circle of people and I say, we’re gonna take turns and we’re gonna go counterclockwise, everyone shares, everyone shares. No one says, “Oh, I feel peer pressured. I don’t want to share.” No one, no one ever does that, but people are allowed to do that, right? People are allowed to skip their turn, but no one ever does because there’s this invitation for people to share. So does that answer your question?

SR Absolutely.

EP So Jacques, one thing I’ve noticed about you since I saw you here and in our other podcast What One Thing is that you’re very passionate. Like, it’s easier to believe someone when they’re this passionate. So I’m really, I’m really curious, like, where did this passion come from? Because, like, it’s, it’s really hard to, like, actually have joy for something, especially when it’s your job and you’re paid to do it, it’s easy to lose joy. So I guess from a planners, you know, kind of perspective, like it’s, how do you find your joy in doing what you do, and in this message that you want to get to people. Because obviously, you know, you started this work when? What year did you start doing this?

JM Well, I started doing flash mob dance parties around the world in 2016.

SR How old were you when you started doing that?

JM I won’t even mention my age. I’ll just say that I was really naive, really naïve enough to take really big risks.

SR That’s a great question, Eming.

EP Fair enough. Fair enough.

SR Eming, I love this is question.

JM Yeah, your question’s amazing, and it feels good to be around passionate people, right? Like, I want to be around people who are passionate about something. I don’t even care what it is, but I feel that energy right, and passion is related to energy. The way that we speak, you can feel the energy, the passion, and it changes how we feel. And so this is a really important skill to cultivate. It’s not who I am. I am not a passionate person.

EP Could have fooled me.

JM I have learned to be this way, right? Just want to also sympathize with my fellow event producers. I am producing an event. I’m producing, like a small summer camp about natural highs. How can we get high without drugs, without smartphones? And so it’s essentially an event about health, and it’s stressful, like there’s a few moving things, and it’s stressful. And when I’m on my computer, yeah, I’m more stressed, and when I’m in work mode, there’s stress. Let’s just be real.

And that’s just a part of the human experience. I accept that and I regulate myself with a bunch of health tools when I’m alone, working on my computer, but to get to your to get to the answer of your question, Eming is I have written like 100 articles about human connection, and I have through writing those articles and also journaling, like every day, I journal in the morning about my positive human connections the previous day, pretty much. And so I have, like, reprogrammed my brain to get excited about human connection. Like, when I’m connecting with people and I’m getting to know them and they’re open, that brings me joy and gets me excited. And it’s because I’ve gradually changed my mindset.

You know, I said in the beginning of this conversation, right? Like every human is this reservoir of joy, like there’s so much potential for human connection, for changing how we feel. We can connect on such a deep emotional level with everyone, even people who don’t speak your language. Like this is what I’ve learned writing about human connection and having conversations with people sitting beside me on planes. Someone’s gonna leave this podcast be like, “Oh yeah, remember to not sit beside the guy.”

SR Oh my gosh. Do you wear your lab coat on a plane?

JM You know, I don’t. I used to. I used to. So I’ll be super authentic here. I used to travel the world with this sound system here. Yeah, it’s called a soapbox, but this is the small version. So I used to travel the world. I used to travel the world, and this is before I was the party scientist. I called myself, and this, this is like how naive I was, and I didn’t know anything about branding. I called myself the banana from Canada, and I would put a microphone on, and I would get hundreds of people following me through the streets while wearing a banana suit. And so I wear my banana suit on the plane.

EP You’re very brave.

SR Very brave. Wow,

JM Surprised I didn’t get flagged.

SR Oh my gosh, a banana suit. I bet TSA loved that.

EP Yeah, for sure, for sure.

JM But the point is, point is like, okay, so let’s imagine that we’re at an event, how we’re dressed, and the energy that we have in our bodies, meaning just our physiological state, right? I’m sort of hippie, but I’m more of a scientist than hippie, so let’s talk like this, the energy, as in, just how it feels to be with someone, right, like that, that state that we have that is either going to attract connection or it’s going to repel connection. And so we need to be aware of how we’re presented. And so the idea of the banana suit was like, it definitely repelled a lot of people, but the people who were positive and joyful, they would come talk to me.

EP Were you carrying the sound system while you were the banana? Like, how did that?

SR Yeah, if someone came up to you, like, what would you say? What would you tell them?

JM I would probably talk about promoting sober partying. That was, that was a big part of the message back then. And I would, I would talk about human connection and changing how we party. And that’s, that’s still really like the underlying mission is, how do we, how do we create a new version of gathering, where it’s just a lot healthier, right? Yeah, yeah, so that that’s when I was super naive. But the point is, when you’re wearing a banana suit, it just lightens the mood. I mean, people who are beside you are not worried about looking good, not worried about their status.

SR Okay, so to all of the event planners out there listening, trying to get your attendees to feel more comfortable at your event, dress like fruit. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. So sorry.

EP So quick question. So I think you may have sort of gotten to this, but like, when what made you choose this life, like, what made you want to be invested in this? Because this is a very specific road, and it means, like, you’re like, I am choosing not to be involved in x, y and z. So obviously you said you had a very interesting, you know, roundabout way of getting here. But like, what was like, the thing that like made you be like, you know, what life shift?

JM Yeah, you know, typically, I talk about saving the lives of young people who had overdosed on alcohol or some unknown substance. But I had people in my life. One person in particular, his name is Gary. He was always telling me “Hey, you are the party scientist, and you are probably the best person in the world at what you do.” And he would say that to me, and he still does. He says it over and over again, and when clients don’t want to work with me, he says, “They don’t get it. You’re the best in the world at leading these interactive parties.” And so the takeaway here is to surround, surround yourself with people who facilitate those risks and who believe in you and who don’t just want you to take the safest path. Right?

The safest path, it’s, it’s, you know, risk management is important, and risk management is important for our careers, but also for our guests. We don’t want to, we don’t want to make people uncomfortable, but we want people to connect in new ways and take social risks, right? So this, this, this ally, this, this believer in me. He, he was the one who led me to kind of travel the world, throwing these, throwing these flash mobs. But way before I even met him, I was a health educator at the University of British Columbia, and I was studying public health, and I was always kind of anti, I was skeptical of how my peers socialized and celebrated life, and I was a medic at all the university parties, and I would see my peers destroy themselves, destroy their brains, destroy their consciousness, like it was, it was extreme.

You know, we don’t, we don’t see this too often people, people are generally good with alcohol, but at these, at these events, people were making really poor choices, and I just thought it was so ironic and sad that like we’re experiencing this activity, which is potentially the best thing for our mental health, celebrating in groups. It’s, it’s so healthy and it’s, it’s all about celebrating life. And yet somehow celebrating life is poisonous.

SR Because drugs and alcohol tend to get so ingrained.

JM Yeah, and I just want to, I just want to speak to this. I think for a lot of people, alcohol benefits their event experience. It’s just, it’s just a question of dose. And so the question that we got to ask ourselves as event designers is, how do we control that dose so that people lighten up? They stop caring how they look. They’re willing to sweat a little bit, moving their bodies. Yet, how do we ensure that their frontal lobe, their executive functioning, their ability to connect intentionally and pay attention? How do we make sure that’s still online, right? So, so, yeah, I, I am, you know, I have this sticky note. I have this pile of sticky notes here, and they’re all my, they’re all my, like life affirmations. This says, “Beautiful state, no matter what.” So I believe in changing my state of physiology. One of them here is, “I am people’s alcohol.” Yeah, here it is.

SR So alcohol tends to be used at these events, as you said, to break down the barriers a little bit so people feel more comfortable engaging. But alcohol, as you have proven, is not necessary for people to truly engage, and it can perhaps be even more beneficial if it’s not involved. And we’re seeing this increase in the events industry, you know, I think that, you know, dry events, mocktails, are becoming ever more popular. You know, year over year, we are seeing this rise, which is a great thing.

JM I have a question for you two. Have you been to a dry event and like it was, it was fun and interesting and exciting?

EP I don’t think, like a wedding?

SR I don’t think that I have ever actually been to a dry event.

JM Okay, okay, I can think of a few, but yeah, the point, I guess it’s a rhetorical question, like dry events that the only difference is that they’re dry, they’re probably more boring than events with alcohol. Like, just rationally, so, so, you know, I’m all for the mocktail movement, but listen, like if you’re just replacing alcohol with mocktails, your events not going to get better. We got to get more creative, right? We got to take some risks. So, so I just find it funny, because, like, I don’t go to bars. I but, but I do love one-on-one connection, and I do love small group connection. I think that’s really important. But I don’t go to bars because they’re not conducive to that, that deep connection that I want. I wouldn’t go to a mocktail bar either, right? I just, it’s just not exciting to me, and the reason is because drinking and talking is not, it can be exciting. It can be really interesting. But I would much rather do something different than merely just drinking and talking. And what I mean by drinking is drinking a mocktail or drinking alcohol. So like the primary activity at a lot of events is eating, drinking and talking.

Those are the primary activities of human connection, right? So what are the other activities that people could do? Well, you could go on a walk, you could play some games. You could, you know, do some conversation games, play some cards, right? Like these are examples of other activities. You know, for me, for me that’s playfulness, playfulness is the activity that I want to create at my experiences, because it’s very self-developmental. It helps people like learn and become better humans because it’s kind of scary and it just fills the body with joy, which is totally stress reducing, right? I think, I think this podcast is getting a little boring. Maybe we should take a shot of…

EP Water.

SR Or coffee.

EP Or coffee.

SR I think that, I think that you mentioned when we interviewed, like, a year ago, that you actually don’t drink caffeine. Is that true?

JM I drink coffee. So they’ve done studies on the most anti-inflammatory—by the way, like, the reason why I have so much energy is because I like do a lot of things for my health, I’m quite extreme in this realm. But, um, I do my matcha tea and my cup of coffee. Matcha green leaf tea is one of the most anti—the, it is the most anti-inflammatory beverage that you can drink. Matcha, amazing.

EP Just so you know, Sara has at least five coffee cups a day. That’s the max. Sorry, Sara, it’s legitimate enough to mention this on the podcast.

SR No, that’s fine. And yes, I do drink a lot of coffee, I know.

EP And she’ll announce it too. She’s like, “Cup number three!”

JM Yeah, I think, I think there’s, there’s an interesting, you know question here, and, and I don’t know the answer. But I wonder how like because caffeine is it promotes alertness and deals with sleep deprivation. So I think I just answered my own question there. If you are sleep depriving guests by like throwing parties in the evening and then expecting them to get up at 7 a.m., first of all, sleep deprivation, literally, your brain doesn’t clean itself after like one night of sleep deprivation.

They’ve done studies it shows, it’s really the like brain stuff accumulates after one night of sleep deprivation. So but if your guests are sleep deprived, caffeine probably improves human connection a lot, because people are more alert. But if they’re not sleep deprived, caffeine might make people a little more jittery, so, but it’s, it’s so independent, right? And same with alcohol, it’s like some people are just better to be around when they’re a little tipsy. Other people are not nice to be around. It’s very it’s a very individual relationship.

EP Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

SR Oh, no, I want you to say what you’re gonna say.

EP I was just going to ask if your zest for life is, just, just natural. Because, like, I would love to bottle your energy and just like, have it offhand.

SR Well, you learned that, right? How did you learn it?

JM Well, here’s the thing, here’s the thing, hang out with people who laugh. And this is this so, so, like, I’m just, I’m just energized because we’re all, we’re all laughing and having fun, and we’re getting into deep topics, but we’re also like, I’m making fun of myself, and I enjoy doing that. But no, no, no, no, this, this, this energy is not natural. It’s taken, like, five years to basically create and it’s nothing. It’s hardly mental either. It’s mainly biological, right? And this is the other big paradigm shift is, what if, as event producers, instead of thinking about the event and the venue and the agenda, what if we were to think more about the biological state of our guests, right? And so we put, we put all this emphasis on, on, you know, these really important things that are necessary.

It’s necessary that people get nice food and are happy with the food. That is a necessary thing. But what if we were to just change our lens a bit and ask ourselves, okay, is this thing that I’m spending money on? Is it going to improve the biological state of my guests so that they can function optimally, socially, physically, mentally, right? So, so, so your question. You know, I have taken care of my biology for like, five years, and so I have, I have a lot of energy, and it’s, it’s happened over it’s happened very slowly over years. And are there times where I’m super tired, I am, but when I’m with, when I’m with people who laugh, and when we’re engaged in a conversation like this, it’s, it’s, it’s so much fun, right?

EP Absolutely. So you feed off your environment, essentially, like, if it’s a like, fun environment that feeds you

SR and you’re intentional with selective, curating your environment.

JM Yeah, yeah, I’m definitely like an empath, but a vampire.

EP I mean, as long as we’re not, like, taking anyone’s blood, you’re good, you’re good, you’re good.

JM Yeah, yeah. The point is. The point is, if we pay enough attention to the joy of other people, and we engage in that present moment, we will absorb some of that joy, right? And so, so joy, joy, it multiplies. It multiplies when we experience it together. And so that’s what I mean by being a vampire, is when someone starts to get excited, that makes that makes me really energized, right? And I think I’ve just gradually learned how to feel another person’s excitement. But the the first condition for that is mindfulness, right? It is, it is not only mindfulness, but it’s like being aware of how we feel in our bodies, right? So there’s being mindful about the other person and paying attention to them, but then there’s also being aware of how we’re feeling in response to them, and once we feel a little bit of that energy and joy in ourselves, then it can start to build right?

SR Beautiful. I think this is probably a good place to ask our number one question. Eming, would you like to do the honors?

EP So, kind of our foundation for this podcast is, you know, to be an asset of information, and that’s helpful for people who are throwing events. So if you have a toolbox of offerings for meeting planners, what could they add from your experience to their experience to make them better in the future and expand and improve the meeting industry as a whole?

SR What is in your toolbox?

JM Yeah, I really think it is about elevating your guests’ physiological experience. And what I mean by that is, instead of inviting people to sit and watch, get people moving, get people meditating, do things that are known to change the physiological state in the body, because sitting and watching lowers energy, right? And so, you know, and that the parallel to that is create, create an opening ceremony for your event where people elevate their energy, elevate their energy. Connect, turn off their social autopilot. Maybe they play a game. Maybe they just talk about their JabberYak.

So really, what I’m getting at is we need to we need to sit less, we need to watch less, and we need to invite guests to move around. Maybe it’s just, hey, change your seat. Change your seat. Maybe, maybe it’s just that. Maybe it’s just a stretch, you know, maybe, maybe it’s just like a quick thing where everyone gets a sticky note and writes down three things they’re grateful for, right? Like all these things, change your guests, physiology and and the next step of that is, how do we get joy flooding through the bloodstream? And because we know that guests are more socially intelligent, they’re more productive, and they’re more intellectually intelligent when they’re positive, right?

When we’re positive and when we feel positive, things improve, we have less stress in the body. And so the next step beyond just getting people moving, getting people, you know, changing, changing their state, is, how do we activate that joy? And that the easiest way to do that is just through gratitude. And it’s just pairing people up and having them talk about gratitude. What are three things you’re really grateful for in your life right now? You know this can activate some joy. And what I would recommend is you package it all into an opening ceremony, because what that’s going to do is it’s going to create psychological safety for the rest of your event. So instead of starting with a speech, start with an opening ceremony that does those three things right. It elevates energy and joy, it creates community, and then it also fosters psychological safety. Psychological safety is risk taking, the acceptability of risk taking, if we can do those three things during an opening ceremony.

And of course, I do opening ceremonies, but anyone can do them. They’re not that hard to create. You know, all it takes is someone on a microphone to invite people to stretch to music and then having them pair up and talk about something positive, you know what? What is one of the best things that happened to you this year, right? That’s going to change people’s state, right? So to wrap that all up with a bow, changing the physiology in the room. Activating that joy through music. Music is a huge way to do that, packaging it all into an opening ceremony and doing that at the very beginning of your event, like I will be doing at the event by MPI and various other events. You will see me at.

EP Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate it, I learned a lot, so I really do thank you.

SR It’s, yeah, I think that this way of reframing what an event can look like is going to play a big role as we see the events industry continue to develop, especially post COVID. You know, people we hear this said all the time, so I am just like speaking to the void of what everyone is saying. But people want to connect so madly, desperately, and there are so many ways that we can reframe it, and you are really paving the way. So thank you for coming on and sharing these ideas with our listeners. I think everyone’s really gonna get a lot out of it.

JM Such a joy. Thank you. You too.

EP I really enjoyed talking to Jacques. We could have probably gone for another hour, honestly. Um, but I was curious, since you’ve seen him, like twice in person. or in person-ish, is there one tip that he offered up that he that he didn’t bring up in our discussion that you thought would be relevant to our listeners on the show?

SR I think everything that he brings up is just points that I want to reiterate, like the way that people connect authentically and create those like, actual lasting bonds are when they have all of those happy chemicals going off in their brains, and those are lasting chemicals, you know, like, it’s not like the rush of serotonin that you get when you have a glass of alcohol or the level of comfort or anxiety-easing that it might provide. It’s about getting getting like a mutual understanding of somebody and letting go a little bit of these really high standards we tend to hold ourselves to, especially as professionals in this industry, a lot of us are faces or trying to create faces for ourselves. A lot of us are, you know, well known or on the path to becoming well known, and with that comes this kind of, I would say, tough exterior of like we want to present ourselves in a certain way. But I think what’s really, really important for us in the meetings industry, as well as those planners who plan for people who are not in the meetings industry, all of us have this, like, professional exterior when we’re at meetings, and that can honestly inhibit lasting learning, right? And it can inhibit genuine networking. But when people are able to let go and just like, laugh about something and be human beings together and connect, like, “Oh my gosh, you have a cat. I have a cat too. I love cats.” Eming and I are both cat owners.

EP If you guys could see our chat, it’s just cat memes back and forth.

SR It really is. So when people are able to connect about something like that, it humanizes them. It makes them trust each other more, and it makes everyone feel a whole lot more comfortable. So I really just want to drive home Jacques’ tips. And I would say, you know, look him up at thepartyscientist.com you can find out a lot more about exactly the science behind his work, and gather tips to sort of implement those ideas into your own discussion facilitation. It really does make a difference.

EP And here’s, here’s one thought I just had we I don’t think we talked to him about it, but we know that the the industry is getting younger, yes, and that kind of makes me wonder, like, how many are actually, like, you know, when they’re at events, when they’re doing stuff like this, like, how often do that particular subsection of planners partake, and how that affects their experiences? I think that’s something that, I think exploring for the future.

SR Speaking to the younger generation, just from like, off the top of my head, what I know is that typically, Gen Z is drinking less than many other generations did prior to them. And that’s not, you know, completely exclusive. That’s not everybody, but Gen Z as a whole, drank less alcohol. And I also know that Gen Z are like one of probably the first generation to be raised in the digital age, like completely, like first generation to have smartphones, as kids typically tend to be a little bit more anti social. So investing in those things that are going to get people out of their shells, get people talking to each other in real life is really what is going to make a difference, and I think incentivize that younger generation to really get involved in this industry, right?

EP Well, thank you, Sara, you’ve become like our Gen Z spokesperson now. Thank you for all things Gen Z.

SR I try, but once again, as my sister would say, I do kind of live under a rock.

EP You’re more informed than probably most. Give yourself some credit. So thank you guys for joining this, our second-to-last episode for the year.

SR Woo hoo! Wrapping it up.

EP I know our end-of-season episode is approaching, so look out for that absolutely.

SR And we have lots of fun stuff coming to you next year. We are so excited, totally camping out in the conference room being like, “What if we did this? What if we did that?” We’re mad scientists.

EP We’re literally mad scientists creating interesting meetings content for y’all, so we hope you are enjoying it so far. In the meantime, if you would like to subscribe to our podcast, if you just found us in the wild, wherever that is, we are on Spotify, we are on iTunes, we are on Amazon, we are on Audible, we are on all the things smart. Smart Start Radio, subscribe, listen, leave us a comment, because we’re so curious how this content is actually working with you guys. Like, is it helpful? Are there things that you want us to explore? Let us know, we are open, for the most part, to suggestions.

SR So please, if you have topics that you’re like, “Oh my gosh, when are they gonna speak about this?” Leave us a comment, because we won’t know if you don’t tell us.

EP Or email us at editor at Smart meetings.com But in the meantime, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Sara, once again, for your immenseness of Sara, didn’t make sense, but it’s fine. I’m fine. I’ve had enough coffee this morning. It’s cool. Thank you all again, and we’ll see you next time on Smart Start Radio, look us up, corporate girlies.

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